‘The Turkish Offensive Against Armenia: An Interview With Comrade Michael Pavlovich’ (Mikhail L. Veltman) from Soviet Russia (New York). Vol. 4 No. 7. February 12, 1921.

[Comrade Michael Pavlovich, a member of the Presidium of the Council of Propaganda and Action of the Peoples of the East, has arrived in Moscow from Azerbaijan. In an interview given before the revolution in Armenia took place, he made the following statements as to events now in progress in the Caucasus. ED.]

1. The Turkish Offensive; Armenia and Georgia.

THE Turkish offensive against Armenia, the occupation of Sarahamish, Ardagan, and Kars by the Kemalist troops, the offensive which is menacing Erivan, the capital of Armenia, and Tiflis, the capital of Georgia, these two bases of the international counter-revolution in the Caucasus, all this is of the greatest international significance. The Turkish offensive manifests the whole strength of the Turkey of Kemal, which the European diplomatists had already tried to divide and to disintegrate. It shows the whole silliness of the imperialistic plans of Armenia, which was endeavoring to capture for itself Turkish territories. Even while it was attacked by Greece, France, and England, the Turkey of Kemal manifested so much force, that it was sufficient for the Turkish troops to cross the border of Armenia, and at once the question arose in Erivan and Tiflis of the necessity to fight for the very existence of the two Caucasian states.

It was quite recently that the Armenian and Georgian press organs were maintaining a bitter campaign against Soviet Russia and against the Turkey of Kemal, preparing the mass of the people for the eventuality of an open war against both neighboring states, which would break out at the first opportunity. It was quite recently that the Georgian press, in connection with the visit of the representatives of the Yellow International, Renaudel and Vandervelde, the servants of capital, and of old Kautsky who has lost his senses, poured out an ocean of dirty calumnies against Soviet Russia. It was only yesterday, that Georgia assisted the counter-revolutionary bands of the big landlord and pseundo-iman, Nashludin, and of Denikin’s colonel Alikhanov to pass into Red Daghestan, supplying these bands with arms, munitions, horses and officers, and that Armenia sent its provocateurs into Sangesour and Karabakh to organize an uprising of the Armenian peasants, who were deceived by the village bourgeoisie into taking up arms against the Red troops. And today the same press organa have to put forward the question of the very existence of Georgia and Armenia.

The danger which threatens us from the side of Georgia and Armenia would have been very serious, and, even without the encouragement of Renaudel and Huysmans, these states would have attacked us long ago, if it were not for one circumstance. The mass of the people of Georgia and Armenia cherished the greatest sympathy for the idea of Soviet Government. Dozens of representatives of Armenia and Georgia attended the Congress of the Peoples of the East at Baku and they took an oath, together with the other delegates at the Congress, to defend Soviet Russia against the assaults of World Imperialism. The Armenian and Georgian delegates had to overcome many obstacles in order to attend the Congress. Some of them were afterwards banished from their countries. But notwithstanding the fact that they were well aware of what was awaiting them, they came to the Congress. This is the best proof of the fervent sympathies which are cherished by the toilers of Armenia and Georgia for Soviet Russia and Azerbaijan. Hundreds of thousands of Georgian and Armenian peasants and workers are impatiently awaiting the moment, when the Red troops will come to their assistance and help them to overthrow the bourgeois governments and to introduce the Soviet system. On many occasions I have personally heard the Georgian and Armenian peasants saying: “If the Turks or Tartars come against us, we shall fight them to the last drop of our blood, but the Russian Red Army are our brothers and we shall take up no arms against them.”

2. The Failures of the Entente.

World reaction suffered serious defeats on both fronts of the Soviet Federation—on the Western and Eastern.

On the Western front, peace was concluded with Poland, and Wrangel was crushed with the quickness of lightning. Soviet Russia gained a new opportunity to gather its forces for the economic and cultural reconstruction of the country. All this was accomplished in spite of the efforts exerted by the French imperialists, who did everything to entice Poland and to assist Wrangel.

On the Eastern front, all the plans of the international counter-revolution were frustrated by the victorious march of the Turkish revolutionary troops against the Armenian Dashnaks, (1) these agents of world imperialism in the Caucasus, and allies of the bandit Venizelos, who has been opposed by the best elements of the Greek people and who, at last, was compelled to retire. The ground is shaking under the feet of the reactionary Government of Armenia and, at the same time, the whole plan of the international counter-revolution, which endeavored to preserve and strengthen Armenia and Georgia as two bourgeois despotisms to play the part of the gendarmes of world imperialism in the Caucasus, has become futile.

Many leading men in Armenia were conscious of the impending disaster even before the final defeat of the Armenian troops had been accomplished. The Armenian newspaper, Nor Hocks, wrote:

“The march of the Turkish troops against Armenia is the first act in the tragedy of the struggle between East and West. Turkey has for its ally the Russian Communist Government, which has already manifested the incomparable force of its revolutionary resistance. The leading persons of Armenia should understand, that, in the struggle between East and West, Armenia must be friendly to Russia and Turkey…”

Hundreds of representatives of the Communist Party of Armenia appealed in the name of the Armenian toiling masses to the Russian comrades to use their influence and get the Soviet Government to intervene in the Armenian-Turkish massacres, to exert a pressure upon both sides to put an end to the war between Turkey and Armenia and to initiate peace negotiations. And Soviet Russia should do this.

At present, the Entente, which lost its hopes of weakening Russia on its eastern frontier, is trying to negotiate with Kemal Pasha and to entice him against Soviet Russia. But this new plan, even if Kemal can be made to listen to the Entente, will fail just as disgracefully as all the past adventures of England and France.

3. The Cause of the Armenian Defeats.

Desiring to blacken Soviet Russia in the eyes of the masses, the Dashnaks were crying both in their press organs and at meetings, that Soviet Russia is supporting the imperialistic plans of the Kemalists, and that the Bolsheviki, together with the Turks, are preparing a combined assault against Armenia with the object of dividing it between themselves. This was a conscious lie. And this time the ruling classes became the victims of their own lies.

When the Turkish troops rushed into Armenia, and the Government of the Dashnaks started to call the mass of the people to arms for the protection of the very existence of the Armenian people, the latter did not answer this call with sufficient enthusiasm. The people of Armenia were panic-stricken. The first condition for a vigorous defense against the enemy is faith in the possibility of such defense, the hope that the blow of the enemy can be repulsed. But the Armenians could have no such faith. The small Armenian nation could not hope to come out victorious in a bloody struggle against Turkey, which it believed was supported by the powerful Soviet Federation, which had crushed so many of its enemies. The bravest became downhearted, and thousands of soldiers threw away their arms and deserted. This was during the first period of the war. The loss of Kars, Ardagan, Alexandropol—this was the first result of the falsehood, by which the Dashnaks poisoned the soul of the people and disheartened even the most brave and courageous. But when it became clear, that powerful Soviet Russia had no intention at all to take advantage of the difficult situation of the small Armenian nation, but, on the contrary, had shown its willingness to exert every effort to make an end of needless bloodshed, then the Dashnaks were dealt a second and even more menacing blow. After having lost much of the Armenian territory, which was occupied by the Turks, the Dashnak Government lost also the last remnants of confidence which it enjoyed with the Armenian people and which was now bestowed upon Soviet Russia. The falsehood of the Dashnaks became clear to everybody. The course of the events exposed to the Armenian people the criminal treachery and, at best, the frivolity of the Dashnaks, who placed faith in the “sincere” desire of the Entente to preserve the independence of Armenia.

In the same time it became clear that Soviet Russia had no selfish intentions in regard to Armenia, that she desired to live in peace with all her neighbors and that she was a sincere friend of all weak nations.

The Dashnaks were powerless and were defeated by the small army of Kemal only as a result of the lies, which they systematically spread against Soviet Russia.

4. The Turkey of Kemal and Soviet Russia. The Intrigues of the Entente.

The Kemalists, even if they were anxious to change their policy and to throw the Turkish army against Soviet Russia, would be powerless to accomplish this on account of the truth which they themselves were telling the people of Turkey about Soviet Russia, about the honesty and greatness of the People’s Commissaries, about the might of the Red Army. During the most critical moments of Anatolian Turkey, when the soldiers of the Turkish revolutionary army had to fight simultaneously against the advancing Greeks, against the French and English, and against the Armenian expeditionary corps, Kemal and his followers were telling their soldiers, who had sometimes become exhausted from suffering and hardships: “Don’t be discouraged. Make a stand for one more month. Great Soviet Russia is hurrying to your assistance. She sends us shells, rifles, and machine-guns. She crushed the Polish troops, the army of Wrangel, and she is rapidly approaching the borders of Western Europe. Soon France and England will be exhausted by the war against powerful Soviet Russia to such an extent, that they will be compelled to give up their struggle against us.” This kind of propaganda was carried on in Turkey day after day. Soviet Russia was represented as the most faithful friend of all Eastern nations and especially of Moslem Turkey. Much was said and written about the attitude of the Soviet Government toward the Tartars, who were granted independence, toward the Bashkirs, etc.

It would be quite naive to believe that, after having carried on such propaganda, it would be easy to get the Red Askers (Turkish soldiers) to war against Soviet Russia. And if Kemal and his followers would risk such an adventure it will be sufficient to deal him one or two good blows, and his army will fall to pieces like a house of cards.

It should be borne in mind that the strength of the Turkey of Kemal is based upon two factors: In the first place, its own intrinsic force; and in the second place the power of Soviet Russia. The Turkey of Kemal drew its energy and most of its power from the moral support it was receiving from Soviet Russia. When Turkey loses this support, her power would at once be shattered, and this loss would be replaced neither by the fleets and expeditional detachments of the Entente, nor by its gold.

5. The Moslem Population of the Caucasus and Soviet Russia.

The fears, which are expressed by some timid persons, that the Turkish Pan-Islamists might get the assistance of the Moslem population of the Caucasus, are quite idle. During the recent assault of the bands of the Iman Nashludin upon Red Daghestan, the Moslem partisans rallied in thousands around the banner of Soviet Russia in spite of the fact that Nashludin appealed to the religious sentiments of his co-religionists. During the attack upon Resht, the Moslem partisans were fighting like lions, and it was not they who joined the Persian Cossacks, but the latter who came over to our side.

It is doubtful whether Kemal would try a hostile attack against the Soviet troops. But if such an adventure on his part takes place, we should not hesitate to call the mountain partisans into our ranks, and it is quite sure that they will not side with Kemal, but, on the contrary, the Red Askers will join us.

6. The Soviet Revolution in the Caucasus.

We are on the eve of a Soviet Revolution in the Caucasus. Such a revolution will be the best pledge for the peaceful development of the Caucasus. In the same time, revolutionary Georgia and Armenia would become our most faithful allies in the event of a change in the policy of Kemal, and his siding with the imperialistic powers of the west.

Soviet Russia can have no intention of enslaving Georgia and Armenia. On the contrary, our vital interests in the Caucasus and in the whole East require, that Georgia and Armenia be actually independent and that they do not serve as a tool in the hands of the Entente, nor become provinces of Turkey, even though it be the Turkey of Kemal.

1. The name of the Armenian Nationalists, usually parading under a Socialist cloak, like the “Socialist” followers of the Polish President Pilsudski.

Soviet Russia began in the summer of 1919, published by the Bureau of Information of Soviet Russia and replaced The Weekly Bulletin of the Bureau of Information of Soviet Russia. In lieu of an Embassy the Russian Soviet Government Bureau was the official voice of the Soviets in the US. Soviet Russia was published as the official organ of the RSGB until February 1922 when Soviet Russia became to the official organ of The Friends of Soviet Russia, becoming Soviet Russia Pictorial in 1923. There is no better US-published source for information on the Soviet state at this time, and includes official statements, articles by prominent Bolsheviks, data on the Soviet economy, weekly reports on the wars for survival the Soviets were engaged in, as well as efforts to in the US to lift the blockade and begin trade with the emerging Soviet Union.

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